#my anti thw agenda
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Httyd 2 Hiccup, after defeating a guy who can mind control dragons to do his bidding, and who made Toothless kill his dad: "We are the voice of peace, and bit by bit we will change the world. You see, we have something they don't. Oh, sure, they have armies, and they have armadas, but we have...our dragons!"
THW Hiccup, after defeating a goofy Viggo-rip off in a hilariously easy battle, no casualties suffered: "Eh, yeah, nvm boys. Time to pack it up, the world fr is too dangerous for dragons rn, we'll have to take a raincheck on our so-far incredibly successful revolution and cross our fingers people will just magically become accustomed to the dragons, which I've made disappear off the face of the earth"
#hiccup haddock#httyd#my anti thw agenda#idk who that guy in thw is but he sure isn't my boy hiccup#be so serious#thw salt#thw slander
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When I saw the latest leaks I could not breathe. HIS ARM. I FELT THE SAME TENSE NAUSEOUS JERK IN MY STOMACH AS SEEING A REAL LIFE BROKEN BONE ON A PERSON RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Deku is 100% going to lose his damn mind. Antis are gonna watch him go fully berserk and say it has nothing to do with bkg.
Literally. LITERALLY. its so …….. like its right there 🥲 every week drops a new chapter of the bkdk agenda and every week ppl turn a blind eye…. dont they feel silly ? i would!
thw term anti for ships always feels so dumb. but ppl will go out of their way to shit on bkdk development every time like cmon. LOOK at them. its not about romance bur theyre literally besties 4lyfers etc like they’re just important to each other at a baseline
#return to sender#bnha manga spoilers#‘he would do that for anyone’ no he would NOT#he literally goes apeshit every time bkg is danger loses his sense#ship stuff
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No, because imagine waiting years to get the answer to the one, most burning question you have about a franchise.
Your curiosity, growing more and more potent with every new installment, every new development.
So many possibilities, so much potential, the sheer capacity for interesting twists and intricate plot points.
All to be crushed, wasted, with the lamest, truly most moronic answer.
Night Furies were one of the most mysterious parts of HTTYD.
Personally, I was brimming with excitement just thinking of all the endless ways the directors could expand upon this species, its history and its culture.
Naturally, we got nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.
Like, really? You expect me to believe that Grimmel (actually now? bffr, get this discount-Viggo outta here) cleared the entirety of, arguably, the most elusive, most careful, most intelligent, most powerful species of dragon.
(Which, even if rare, we're looking at at least several hundred dragons.)
Because they can't travel long distances (Who are you talking to right now? 🤨) and because they can't bear the cold (Girl, be so serious 😮💨).
Ladies, gents, my non-binary friends; I've heard it all. This is it. It was so ridiculous, so disappointing, so ridiculously disappointing I started laughing.
And maybe fans who've only watched the movies don't get the hysteria, but if I'm anything, it's a RoB, DoB, RTTE truther. And damn, those series are laying it on thick, especially RTTE.
You have the Dragon Eye. Places like Vanaheim. New and fascinating discoveries about dragons left and right.
THIS PART:
I was kicking my feet up and down when I saw this.
We could've done so much more with this, but nope. Of course not.
Fuck, I will die mad at this movie.
#httyd#night fury#thw slander#thw salt#thw criticism#sigh#disappointment stings#tsk tsk#i could go on#and on#and ON.#the hidden world#my anti thw agenda
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I get that THW was going for a sobering message of "sometimes you have to let people go" and "some friends can't stay forever", but it was hilariously unsuccessful.
It's still baffling to me, the amount of raving reviews calling it "the perfect ending".
Apart from the wild thematic inconsistencies, and the endless flaws with Hiccup's logic of "oh, yeah, I know that things have never before been this good for dragons, I know that Berk is living proof that even the most stubborn people can change their minds on dragons, I know that dragons thrive on companionship and love their humans, I know that good people exist, I know that I'm the instigator of a huge revolutionary period, butttttt..... because bad humans exist I'll lock away the entirety of the draconic population in a glorified underground cage, in the hopes that one day humans will stop being bad and learn to cooperate with the creatures that they question, or even forget, the existence of a measly decade after their disappearance. Magically.", this message plainly didn't fit.
Not just in a thematic context. I mean that it literally doesn't fit in this situation, and it doesn't fit the characters.
It doesn't even fit reality, because you have to let go of people for reasons. Some friends can't stay forever, for reasons.
Valid ones. Reasons like, you grew apart, you don't have shared interests anymore, they betrayed you in an unforgivable way, they're not good for you, they're not good to you, they died, etc etc.
Had any one of these happened? At any stage? The one thing you could, albeit pointlessly, argue is that they grew apart. That they outgrew each other.
Only that...they didn't? Did I miss something? Because Toothless flying away for, what, a day to spend some time with his love interest, is not outgrowing. Toothless finding romance does not mean that he and Hiccup grew apart.
And this isn't just about the Light Fury. I'm not discussing whether or not she's a good character (she isn't), and I'm not discussing whether or not she deserves Toothless (Ha, you're funny). Even if she were the absolute best, most perfect match for Toothless and a compelling character, it still wouldn't even remotely mean that he and Hiccup grew apart.
In fact, if you grow so far apart from your best friend that you can say goodbye to them forever, just because you found a new partner, then I really don't know what to tell you. (Except that you're probably not a good friend.)
Hiccup realizing that Toothless doesn't make him who he is, and doesn't define him, that he doesn't need Toothless in order to be someone, or even that he doesn't need Toothless at all, doesn't mean that he outgrew him. Not even slightly.
I mean, come on, I don't need the vast majority of people in my life. Arguably, I might not even need any of the people in my life. This doesn't mean I don't want them there.
This doesn't mean that I won't fight for them to stay right here, by my side.
Oh, look, how's that for a change? How about a movie where your friends refuse to leave you? Because that's what I want, and that's what How To Train Your Dragon deserved.
That's what Hiccup, and the rest of the Berkians, deserved. And that's what fit. That's what thematically fit, what fit reality, or at least the httyd reality, and what fit the characters themselves.
This movie treated the dragons as mindless pets, whereas in every other step of the way, they were treated as people.
Toothless isn't a just slobbery puppy.
Toothless is intelligent, curious, kind, understanding, funny, snarky and sarcastic, graceful, elusive, protective, loving, wary, and fucking loyal (plus much more).
I can't think of a character that has demonstrated as much loyalty and protectiveness as this guy.
And yet he was barely any of the aforementioned things in thw. He became unrecognizable.
All the dragons became unrecognizable, for no justifiable reason.
The final message shouldn't have been that your friends sometimes have to leave you, and that you have to let them go.
(The humans left the dragons just as much as the dragons left the humans btw)
It should've been that they'll fight tooth and nail to stay, even when the going gets tough, even when priorities shift, even when you tell them to go.
No matter how passionately you insist that caring for you is rotten work.
It's not to them.
#my anti thw agenda#i said what i said#i said what i needed to say#i stand by it#this franchise deserved a better ending#i could still go on#im still mad#i shall die mad#lord give me patience#for if you give me strength i will be charged with dean's murder#this is a hyperbole btw#not just for legal reasons i really don't have it in me to kill him but yk. still#toothless#hiccup haddock#thw criticism#thw salt#httyd the hidden world#httyd thw
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Toothless (and generally most dragons) lost all his personality in thw.
Gone was the loyal, protective, intelligent, curious, silly, expressive, understanding, and sassy/snarky dragon we adored more and more through each new installment in the franchise.
Who is this puppy in thw and what did he do to Toothless?
Look me in the eye and tell me that if anyone, dragon or not, was to pluck Hiccup off his back and send him into the ocean to die, they wouldn't get a minimum of two blasts in the face.
Yes, Toothless is playful and silly and adorable, but only around the people/dragons he trusts, and especially around Hiccup specifically.
Otherwise, his guard is up, he is wary, and he himself has to evaluate whether or not someone is safe to be around.
"Hey, I guess Dean dumbed him down because he wanted to show the effects of domestication—"
Woah there, big words.
Domestication? The definition of domestication is "the process of taming an animal and keeping it as a pet or on a farm".
That is not what's happening on Berk.
Dragons were never pets to humans. (If anything, humans were their pets.)
They stood by the Vikings' sides out of their own volition, and were free to come and go as they pleased.
We see this clearly in GoTNF.
They wouldn't let a human they didn't trust so much as touch them, let alone allow them anywhere near their backs.
They are the ones that choose their riders, or if they even want one, not the other way around.
And they weren't exactly "tamed" either. Or rather, nobody tried to alter their nature and innate instincts.
In RoB, we clearly see that Vikings are the ones who adjust, who adapt accordingly, because dragons are gonna do what dragons do.
And those instincts of theirs were honed. They weren't tamed, they were trained.
The notion that wild dragons are more powerful because they're wild makes no sense to me, because while wild dragons have raw power and raw instinct, trained dragons arguably have more than that.
They learn to work with other dragons, and they're able to pull off some incredible moves, because their bodies are, well, consistently trained.
They go on dangerous missions on the regular, for fuck's sake. During which, they also have to think. The dragons aren't told what to do, nor are they steered by their riders constantly (and when they are, the dragons trust them to do so)
They can take the reins as well (and when they do, the riders trust them to do so), but most of the time, they both move together in sync, understanding what, and how it, needs to be done.
In what world would such a lifestyle weaken them, or threaten to erase their aforementioned instincts?
I don't get Dean's point.
And Hiccup? What's up with the poor decision making?
Because I know damn well Hiccup wouldn't let dragons take over Berk to the point where, within the first ten minutes of the movie , half of it collapses. An event which apparently everyone is used to, because nobody worries about it.
He put an ocean between Garff and a couple of dragons because of how incompatible they were, in terms of needs and way of life.
He relocated dragons constantly, so as not to overcrowd and/or to protect the Edge.
Even when he was, what, 15 in RoB/DoB, he was mindful of the way he handled situations, to ensure Berk and the Vikings wouldn't be overwhelmed with dragons.
He understood that it's impossible for thousands of dragons to cohabitate with humans, and with each other, peacefully and without chaos.
Not to mention, he respected dragon culture and understood that some spaces were not made for the human eye. He made such a big deal about revering Vanaheim, and you expect me to believe he'd be okay with just exposing a place called The Hidden World, a delicate draconic paradise?
And wow, way to go, let's uproot the ENTIRE village, and go searching for this place that we don't even know for sure exists? Yes, very responsible.
And why not just make a life-changing call without consulting anyone, or thinking it through, based on what you alone think is best, while you're at it? Sounds like a great idea.
It's not like in previous installments he always made sure to have a team huddle to discuss (or at least inform the group of) their next move, even in the tightest of spots and with the littlest time; no, of course not.
His leadership abilities, his tactical and strategic thinking, his caution, his conviction and determination? Gone. Erased.
Who is this guy in thw and what did he do to Hiccup?
And as for Toothless and Hiccup's dynamic in this movie, something that Astrid said bugs me to an unfathomable degree.
"You gave him his freedom back, what did you expect?"
Woah there, big talk.
This paints a horribly ugly picture. It makes Toothless seem like he'd been held captive by Hiccup, that if he could've flown on his own, he would never have stuck around this long.
Which, much like the rest of this movie, is a load of horseshit.
Toothless is just as free, if not free-er than, as the rest of the dragons. Because while all dragons love and trust their riders, and vice versa, nobody has a connection quite like Toothless and Hiccup (save for perhaps Valka and Cloudjumper).
Toothless could've been flying on his own for a long, long time now. But he didn't want it. He was vehemently opposed to the idea.
Why? Because to him, flying was no longer worth it if Hiccup wasn't right there with him. Because Hiccup took the loneliness out of flying. Because Toothless wanted nothing more than to be by Hiccup's side. Hiccup was the one that made flying worth it.
A major theme of this movie is learning to fly on your own. Toothless had to learn how to fly without Hiccup, and Hiccup had to learn how to fly without Toothless (I mean, personally I'd rather them remaining inseparable soulmates that are mildly codependent. I recognize it's not necessarily the healthiest dynamic, but fuck if I care)
Toothless did this through meeting his mate, and falling in love (no matter how horribly written and designed she is, and no matter how I personally would've preferred for the Hicctooth bromance to remain undisturbed).
He met a creature that he wanted to follow and be alone with, a creature that made flying alone, with nobody on his back, worth it.
And more importantly, Hiccup had to realize that he's not who he is because he has Toothless, and subsequently the dragons. It's the opposite.
This is growth, and the realization that they don't need each other is important.
But why the fuck does that mean they have to say goodbye?
I don't need most of the people in my life. That doesn't mean I don't want them here.
The point was that Hiccup doesn't need Toothless in order to be someone.
Not that he didn't need Toothless, period.
(Even if the point was simply that he didn't need Toothless, which I could concede to, that again doesn't mean that Toothless had to leave, and take the entire dragon population with him.
To me, that sends a message of "if you don't need them, then they gotta go".
It's not what outgrowing a friendship looks like, despite the fact that many people choose to interpret it as such.
Sure, this movie shows what outgrowing a friendship is; if outgrowing a friendship means making room in your life for other people. If outgrowing a friendship means you found romance. Which is ridiculous.)
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To further clarify:
I am well aware the shows aren't canon.
This, however, doesn't change the fact that all these series tie in with HTTYD 2 really well, and that they make sense.
They expand on the characters and give us a better grasp of the world in httyd. They allow us to understand everything better.
When you only have, at most, 150 minutes to tell a story, every minute of it needs to somehow add to the plot. To further the narrative. There is very little time for fluff.
In a movie, it's practically impossible to properly explore the characters' different dynamics, to give everyone their own arc, to let the audience bask in the slow moments and to let the characters just be.
In a series, however? Well. You've definitely got time.
For someone who only watched the movies, it would be pretty damn difficult to understand the mis-characterization in say, Snotlout, Fishlegs and the twins.
You don't know these characters that well. You don't know the well-established dynamics between the gang in the same way that someone who's watched the series does.
Which is exactly why I think that people who've watched them are the ones that dislike the hidden world the most.
I, too, am usually opposed to using non-canon material to make a point, but RoB, DoB and RTTE are the only spin-off series from a successful movie franchise I can name that make perfect sense. That succeed in accurately portraying the main cast, in realistically expanding on the secondary characters (like Fishlegs, Snotlout, and the twins, who now have the space to become part of the main cast), and in smoothly integrating new characters.
They also manage to beautifully explore this magical universe full of dragons, adventure, and mystery, while firmly establishing the dragons as an important part of ecosystems all around.
Whether it's subconscious or not, they create an unshakable image of how all the characters think, act, and interact. You spend a hell of a lot longer with the characters in a lengthy eight season series than in two movies.
But it's not a bad thing, because this image carved by the series fits in nicely with the image carved in all the canon installments of the franchise.
Well. Except for one, cough cough.
#and don't get me started on the rest of the cast's characterization#along with their dynamics and interaction with each other#my anti thw agenda#thw criticism#thw slander#thw salt#this rant is a mess#and possibly nonsensical#and i possibly veer off topic a million times#not sure#hiccup haddock#toothless#exactly because i love them so much do i hate this movie with such vitriol#analysis#long post#gratuitous use of the words “dragons” and “humans”#the hidden world#rtte#httyd rob#httyd dob#besides#if the series were canon then thw would make significantly and i mean SIGNIFICANTLY less sense#still the fact that you don't even NEED to bring them up to explain why the movie sucks is a pretty good indication#that even without their existence thw would still suck#though it would be less obvious#hictooth
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By far, my biggest problem with THW isn't with the separation. It's not that the dragons left the humans, it's not that Toothless left Hiccup.
I mean, it is. But more specifically it's the way that it was portrayed as if their leaving was them getting their freedom back.
It's easily the most infuriating part of it all, because it implies that dragons were simply captives, that they, in fact, weren't free to do as they pleased.
It further feeds into the "dragons good. humans bad" narrative, which is plain wrong. There are bad dragons. The very first villain was a bad dragon. And of course, there are more bad humans than bad dragons, but that's not the point.
The point is that there are good humans. There are so many good humans. I mean, what the fuck do you think our protagonist is? The gang? The entirety of Berk?
Good humans who repeatedly fight for the freedom of dragons. This is the franchise's whole premise?
That dragons are caring, loyal creatures who actually thrive on companionship? Have you seen all those moments, big and small, where dragons act like little puppies around their humans, because they love them so much?
And then THW came in like a wrecking ball, telling us that "haha, actually, dragons aren't truly free unless they're in the wild" or smth.
Smh
#my anti thw agenda#thw salt#thw criticism#the hidden world#this like the only thing i post about nowadays#for good reason#i got shit to say
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Aha. I can further analyse why Hiccup and Toothless', and subsequently the humans and the dragons', separation bothers me so much.
It indirectly feeds into the "good together, just as good apart" narrative.
A narrative that I really don't like.
In no important relationship, platonic or romantic, should you be good together, just as good apart. (At least I don't think so, anyway.)
The people closest to you, the people you most love, should bring out the best in you, and vice versa.
You should bring out the best in each other, thus making you better together.
A mutually beneficial thing. How had Ruffnut and Tuffnut put it? A symbiotic relationship.
Look at Amy and Jake from B99. They are good individually. But together? Amy brings out Jake's maturity, Jake brings out Amy's desire to loosen up once in a while. Amy is calmer and less uptight around Jake, and Jake is more put together and serious around Amy.
Amy sees the value in fun and play, Jake sees the value in maturity and seriousness. But without fundamentally changing one another. Without expecting the other to suddenly become a different person.
A perfect example of good apart, better together.
And Hiccup and Toothless? Good apart, better together.
Same exact tune for humans and dragons.
I mean, come on, people, look at HTTYD and especially HTTYD 2. That's their whole point.
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If TNR is to be considered canon, as in yes, this is actually what happened 1300 years after THW, then my point is made for me. My work here is done. I've nothing more to say, the show did it all for me.
The Nine Realms is concrete proof that Hiccup's plan sucked ass.
#my anti thw agenda#thw salt#thw criticism#httyd#httyd tnr#the nine realms#this show is literal evidence#of how bad hiccup's decision was#like wow#this is how good the hidden world held up? this is how great dragons have been doing for the millennium the spent underground? shit#yikes
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You know Hiccup failed big time when, not even ten years after the dragon-human separation , his own daughter hated them, considered dragons evil, made traps specifically catered to slaughtering them, and fantasized about murdering them.
Like, I adore you so much, but how do you even do something like this, bro?
#my anti thw agenda#what was dean even thinking? Really now?#thw salt#hiccup haddock#httyd homecoming#httyd the hidden world#sigh
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"I don't like wolfstar—"
"Sasusaku are my otp—"
"THW was the perfect ending—"
"Hisoka is so hot—"
"TPW was exploitative and incredibly harmful—"
"Coho is such a great writer—"
"Taylor Swift could write Shakespeare but Shakespeare couldn't write folklore—"
"Opinions can't be wrong—"
"[insert every other horrendous take I've ever heard]"
Shhhh shh shhhh, nobody asked for your irrelevant thoughts go away
#these ppl fr exist#unbelievable#and yes obviously people can ship what they want and they're entitled to their own opinions#but this is *my* blog#and im entitled to my own judgement#and boy am i judging yall hard#it's okay to have no taste i promise#not that i can relate ofc but still#my anti thw agenda#thw salt#my anti ss agenda#it's been a hot minute since ive posted this tag but im here to remind yall nobody hates this ship like i do#anti hisoka#wolfstar#colleen hoover slander#anti taylor swift#taylor swift critical#tpw#the poppy war
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THW Astrid: "Look at you, embracing change."
Hiccup First-ever-boy-to-befriend-and-ride-a-dragon Horrendous I'll-reinvent-the-entirety-of-Berk-so-that-Vikings-and-dragons-can-live-in-peace Haddock Bit-by-bit,-we-will-change-this-world The Third: "...I know right, who would've known?"
#my anti thw agenda#thw salt#thw criticism#hiccup haddock#mischaracterization goes hard in this#it's comical how ridiculous this movie was
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If HTTYD 2 stumbled a bit, then THW full on face-planted.
#httyd the hidden world#my anti thw agenda#i saw this as a comment somewhere#and wow it is so true#thw salt#httyd 2
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I only now realized just how awful everyone was to Hiccup in THW?
Like, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?
#thw salt#my anti thw agenda#thw criticism#hiccup haddock#httyd#httyd the hidden world#thw whiplash was strong with this one
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I've talked so much about how OOC Toothless and Hiccup were in THW, but I haven't forgotten about Astrid.
As if she would ever be alright with just saying goodbye to her girl Stormfly, as if she would ever suggest that Toothless was "given his freedom back" because of that tailfin, as if she'd even let Hiccup make a decision as huge as permanently separating them from dragons without thinking it through or discussing it with her, as if she'd be okay with settling down and stop being the badass warrior who tirelessly fights for dragons. As if she'd support Hiccup just uprooting Berk like this in the first place? As if she'd want to just have kids and be a mom and the always supportive wife, instead of being the competent, headstrong, passionate spitfire who always speaks her mind and is able to both put Hiccup in his place while still showing her love and respect for him, instead of berating him?
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I just know Hiccup missed flying so much his bones creaked and his soul ached, but missed Toothless even more.
#im in agony just thinking of this#my anti thw agenda#fucking hate that bitch#though you probably already knew that because all i do is talk about hating it#hiccup haddock#toothless#hictooth#my babies istg
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I really, really don't like how Toothless' design is in THW. (How most of the designs are, really.)
It's too. Perfect.
And no, I don't mean the "perfect" that I use to describe Toothless' design in 1.
I mean perfect in the way that it's too smooth, too round, too literally flawless. Where are the markings? The visible scales? What is up with his eyes?
Was he adorable? Yes. And that's a problem, because they made him adorable in the way that a dog is adorable.
Goofy, clumsy, slobbery, constantly playful, often demanding attention. And that was all he was for the entire movie. Which is ridiculous. They gave him such puppy eyes. And while he always had them, they weren't on his face 24/7.
Toothless isn't a dog. He's a Night Fury for fuck's sake.
You know, aerodynamic, sleek, stealthy, intelligent, aerodynamic, deadly, cautious, loyal, aerodynamic, protective, graceful, snarky, aerodynamic.
I mean, sure, in 2 his design was also changed. He became a bit rounder, in a way. But nothing like in THW.
He still had visible markings, and he was plenty aerodynamic, deadly, protective, loyal etc. His personality was right there, it remained perfectly intact, even through the slight changes in his appearance.
(And even if he was a bit more excitable in it, five years of constant fun with your best friend will loosen you up whether you like it or not.)
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